Sunday, September 1, 2013

Northerntruthseeker Rant For Sunday, September 1st, 2013

It is Sunday, the start of the month of September, and again time for my weekly rant....

First, Many have again wondered why I do not do daily posts like I used to.... I have been busy the last while with doing a course upgrade for my job, as well as taking care of some family business.... It has been hard to keep up with this blog at times, so bear with me.... I am still here, and very much alive and kicking..

Of course, most of this week's rant will indeed be about Syria....And the absolutely horrendous actions by the criminals in the United States and Israel who care not about people, but want to again satisfy their blood thirsty habit by having another innocent nation destroyed.

I really have to ask this question.... WHAT has Syria ever done to deserve this?   Honestly... Syria has not attacked anyone, and it has no need for wars of aggression against any of its neighbors....Even against the horrific terrorist state of Israel!  From what I have observed, its citizens absolutely support their government, and only want to live in peace and harmony.   Syria is no threat to the United States, and has never attacked any American interests, period... But for some reason there is a massively ridiculous notion promoted through the Jewish controlled media that absolutely vilifies Syria and its government continuously around the clock.

I have said over the last week that I am one supremely pissed off blogger.... I have followed the absolutely laughable BS reports spewing out of the Jewish controlled Mainstream media about the lies of Syria's government launching "Chemical Weapons" attacks on its own people, and I wonder if everyones' brains have suddenly gone out to lunch.... Common sense should have automatically been the order of the day when the first reports came in about these "chemical weapons" attacks.... The major question should have been obvious... WHY would Bashar al-Assad gas his own people, when his people have given him their full support in his attempts to free his nation from the outside invaders known as the "rebels"?   To me, the answer should have been obvious.... He did not!    But amazingly, the Jewish mainstream media right on cue avoided this hard question and instead attempted to ram into the gullible American people the lies that Assad did it without explaining why.

I am proud to say that in the face of all the BS coming out of the liars in the media and government about Syria, that most people are no longer fooled.... It especially showed a few days ago when the British Parliament, in spite of its overwhelming control by Jewish criminals, has rejected the Jewish prime minister, Cameron's push to have Britain support America in a direct attack on Syria.   This has indeed been a slap in the face to the blood thirsty Cameron, and to the Jews who want nothing more than another war of aggression.   But there has been backlash of course against Britain itself, with the Jew press vilifying Britain for its stance and refusal to obey its Jewish masters.    I for one am proud of the British people for standing up for what is right and saying "NO"!

Now with the entire world against him, the criminal Jewish controlled US President has decided another trick to get his war for his Jewish masters going.... Obama/Soetoro/Davis has asked for the US Congress to vote this Tuesday for their support in his war effort.   Lets not kid ourselves here.... The US Congress is completely controlled by Jewish interests, and I can guarantee that they will indeed vote OVERWHELMINGLY for war on Syria in a few days.....

Here is the truth about the so called "elected" US Congress: Anyone that votes against the call for war against Syria in the US Congress knows that they will be committing career suicide,because a NO vote will mean that the Jewish power brokers in America will have them either destroyed, or make sure that they will never be re-elected.    Therefore what we have here is a sick ploy by the criminal US President to fool the American public into the belief that Congress voted for war, which will get him off the hook for being the real aggressor and advocate for Syria's destruction!

What I see happening, and very soon, is the approval for war against Syria by the US Congress, and the missiles flying as early as Wednesday.    The criminal US President has called for this to be a "limited" strike against targets in Syria.... But any "limited" strike will cost hundreds of innocent casualties, especially Syrian civilians....And the lunatics who want war are somehow thinking that Assad will not respond to an attack on his nation?  If I was Assad, I would respond with EVERYTHING I have got, and make the Americans pay dearly for an assault on his sovereign nation.   What I have long suspected is that this is exactly what the Jewish criminals want... They want this war to escalate and to have Syria's ally, Iran, come to Syria's aid when the missiles do indeed fly.   That way they can finally have their long cherished war against Iran itself... Sadly, most Americans have been kept purposely in the dark about this horrible scenario....War with Iran where thousands of Americans will be fighting and dying for their Jewish masters and the glorious state of Israel....

And what about my nation, Canada, in all of this?  I for one am disgusted by the Harper regime and its call for "support" of the United States in any conflict against Syria.    Just as I have said above about the United States... What has Syria ever done to warrant war with Canada?  I do not recall ever seeing or hearing anywhere that there has been an attack by Syria against Canadian interests anywhere in the world.... It should be obvious to any Canadian that the Jews are in full control of this once free nation, and that the so called "elected" officials in Ottawa are nothing more than puppets for Jewish interests.

With the possibility now almost a reality that the US cruise missiles will be flying against Syria as early as this Wednesday, I have again been wondering where is the outcry from the American people?   Yes, there were some protests yesterday in cities in the United States, and around the world, against this push for attack on Syria, but of course it has not been enough.   Sadly, what I see happening is that the American public has now been fully lobotomized and turned into zombies through the effects of their Jewish controlled brainwashing media and their poisoned food supply.  Most have now had their brains turned into mush, and will do NOTHING to stop the madness of their own government. The people of the United States could have averted this conflict by going after these criminals to stop them in their tracks, but instead did nothing... Now after this upcoming missile assault, they could be watching things rapidly deteriorate into World War III against both Russia and China, and with that the collapse of the United States itself.   It seems that only then will most suddenly ask... What the hell just happened?

Ok, Enough about Syria.    On to other matters..... With almost all the Jew media attention on Syria, there has been news coming out of Europe that the fraud European Union, in spite of all the efforts by the Jewish Rothschilds to maintain this first attempt at a one world government, is finally falling to pieces..  Greece, in spite of the so called "austerity" measures, which I had predicated would fail, has now again declared bankruptcy and is in danger of collapse.  I for one knew that these "Austerity" measures that basically further enslaved the Greek people into horrendous debt usury would never work, and that the Greek people would have been better off to just say "NO" to these criminals just as Iceland did.... But the Greek government is fully under the grip of the Jewish bankers, and we now see the price paid for their folly...... Greece is a ticking time bomb that could explode any time now and herald the full collapse of the EU itself....  But when will people learn?  Throughout history, any nation that has adopted a Jewish Usury system of debt for their finances has always collapsed.   Jewish usury debt is completely unsustainable in any society, and we are now seeing the result with nations everywhere in complete ruination.   To me the solution in Europe is obvious.... End the EU, and have every nation follow the Icelandic model by by say NO to the IMF and criminal Rothschild banking.

And of course while the Jewish run media focuses in on Syria, in neighboring Israel the criminal government is continuing their accelerated swallowing up what is left of the Palestinian west bank.   It is amazing that while this crisis in Syria has the world's full attention, the Israelis have ok'ed the building of more illegal settlements in the occupied territory.    This again makes the so called "Peace Process" a complete joke.   It also proves that I have been right along in stating that the Palestinian people have no choice for their very survival... It is now either fight against the Israeli aggressors, or be annihilated.   With those two being the only choices, I know which one I would take in a heartbeat...

I have again come under some criticism for my naming the criminals, the Jews.... But I need to ask those who criticize exactly who controls the media, our governments, our corporations, and who has their own blueprint for world domination that they have been following almost to the letter?   It is not the Vatican.. Nor the Jesuits... Nor the Muslims....Nor some German "Death Cult".. But the Jews.    I for one am sick of those who call them "money junkies" instead of calling them what they are.    When someone says "money junkies" or "bankers", I simply ask them ..... WHO exactly are these "money junkies" or "bankers"?   Take a look at these bankers or money junkies, and you find that overwhelmingly they are Jews, and the few that are not answer solely to their Jewish masters..... The same goes for the control of the media and government, for when you take a close look and dig into who is at the top, you find this same criminal tribe of Jews in complete control..... It does sadden me that those who know better avoid the naming of the criminals and prefer to try to cloud the issue through the usage of false terms such as "money junkies"... They know better, and most of their audience does as well....

And as far as the Protocols of the Learned Elders Of Zion go.... I have read them, and I am amazed as to how these criminal Jews are following them perfectly..... Many continue to say that the Protocols are not real, and that it was "proven" years ago that they are a "forgery".... But it seems that many have forgotten the definition of the word "forgery" itself in that a "forgery" is a falsified copy of an original!   That, and many forget that the Jews are indeed following what has been laid out in Protocols today.    Many ask me directly... Are the Protocols real?  I answer immediately and without hesitation.. ABSOLUTELY!   I ask those who continue to doubt to just read them again.....The answer is indeed staring them right in their faces...

I have spent two years now going over the Fukushima disaster, and still somehow hope that the world would stop its insane push for war, and instead concentrate on fixing this planet threatening disaster.   Sadly, so little attention has paid to this horrific situation in Japan, and now the entire Pacific Ocean itself..... Much of the west coast of the United States and Canada has now been poisoned by Fukushima radiation, and we are seeing the results with much of the west coast fisheries destroyed and many more people now getting sick.... But sadly, little of this is reported in the Jew media, because their first concern is of course their glorious state of Israel and its push for wars of aggression.....Fukushima could still destroy this planet, but Jewish interests come first?  Does anyone else see the problem here?

OK.... I have ranted long enough for today..... I have more course material to read over, and I am still crossing my fingers that people in the US will stop their criminal government in the nick of time.... In the meantime, I will close with my usual last minute tidbits......  I see that Charles Giuliani is back on air over at Waking America Radio Network, at his usual daily 7-9 CDT time slot.  Hopefully, they will get the audio issues cleared up shortly.........Still no word back from Deanna Spingola about my being on her show.   I did have time this coming week to be on, but no reply from her.   Still hoping for sometime in the near future, and I will indeed let everyone know when it happens......Had an interesting comment this week about my calling the Curiosity probe on Mars a fraud.  Basically agreed with my statements, especially about how I have shown that parachutes cannot operate on Mars as NASA claims.   I have yet to see anyone show how a parachute can work in a near vacuum, even the so called "supersonic" parachute that NASA claims is valid.   And of course we have the fraud "skycrane" and even the color of the martian sky to consider.  NASA does indeed stand for "Never A Straight Answer"........NO, I have not given up on showing that Project Apollo was also a huge NASA scam and fraud.  That should be obvious to even the most ardent supporters of NASA and their false claims of man on the moon by now!.....Many wonder why I continue to attack American reality shows, such as "Keeping Up With The Kardashians".  Is the answer not obvious?  These garbage "shows" are prime examples of the brainwashing of the American people and what is wrong with American society today as a whole!........ And speaking of the Kardashians, it is indeed time for my weekly swipe at that great and wholesome (cough, cough) American family.   It seems that Khloe is now slamming the American press for putting her and her marriage to Lamar Odom under a microscope.  Gee, Khloe, you, being one of the best attention grabbers and publicity hounds going did not mind until now that America was swallowing your garbage, but now that your world is crashing down, you suddenly cannot stand the media attention?  The word hypocrite is too good for you.  Just an example of America's #1 family at its best!

More to come


*Update Sept 1st, 2013:  It appears that I am a bit off on the time that the US Congress critters are to return to Congress... That is not due until September 9th, which means that the missiles cannot possibly fly until at least a week this Tuesday, the 10th of September.... Unless of course, the insane US President attacks without congressional approval....


Fred said...

With your permission I am going to use this comments section of this post to lay out and explain everything that I have come to find out about the mars lander. Please feel free to take everything I post and combine it rewrite it etc in order to make it as cohesive and irrefutable as you see fit. I want to preface this with the statement that you were the first one to give me the incentive to look and see what I could figure out about landing. I started looking at the parachute and quickly realized that the easiest way was to study the total energy that was alleged to be dissipated during the landing. Using basic physics I started at the beginning or what is known as the entry interface. I was going to examine the heat shield thoroughly then move on to the parachute. What I discovered with the heat shield phase of the landing was so overwhelming I never even advanced to the parachute aspect . But if I start on this now I can include the parachute easily. All the variables I used for my calculations are pretty much public domain where ever possible I used official nasa values or used wickipedia or as you will see in one instance I was forced to guess at the value so i used the "swag" method or scientific wild ass guess. I can also show why and how swag is a valid method to start with when the value you seek is not published anywhere. I am also going to break this down to simple physics concepts so anyone can read the work check my calculations and understand what I am presenting. As soon as I get a response I will start.

Anonymous said...

On the monumental list of jew scams,
add nuclear weapons and radiation.
As happened at the start of the rest,
we don't know the whole story...yet.

The Jesus Factor

Phoenix trees sprouting within weeks after Hiroshima bomb.
100,000+ returned to rebuild within

The list goes on...just like the
holohoax and the nasa scams.

The rest of the story awaits those of you out there who will simply

Northerntruthseeker said...

Fred.. I do not mind...

This debate to expose the fraud of Curiosity has been long overdue...

We could first ask how the Viking probes landed on Mars using parachutes that could not possibly work in the vacuum atmosphere of Mars.... I really want to see some of the ardent supporters squirm...

Then there is of course the color of the Martian sky... At 0.005 BAR pressure, there is not enough molecules in the martian "air" to diffuse light to give the sky any color... I am still waiting for someone to come up with a rebuttal to that one as well....

Lets see what happens...

Anonymous said...

Never one to enjoy Schadenfreude (joy at others' misfortune), except when it comes to a certain sh*tty patch of dirt on the east end of the Mediterranean, I also discovered something else that piques it:

NTS, when you refer to them as brain-dead skanks, you might be clinically accurate!

Fred said...

I am going to start with a simple physics explanation of how the Mars lander must be slowed down. There are two forms of energy that must be addressed kinetic and potential. Kinetic energy is the energy a mass has when it is in motion, there are two ways to dissipate kinetic energy one is to impart it to another mass, the second is to change it to heat. To impart the kinetic energy to another mass would be similar to billiard balls striking each other, and the second way to dissipate kinetic energy would be the same way you stop your car you change the kinetic energy of the car into heat by using your brakes the same means must be utilized everywhere in the universe. Potential energy is the energy of a mass due to gravitational attraction and is proportional to the distance between the two masses. If you are in a tall building and you jump out of it you fall to the ground due to your potential energy but during your fall you change your potential energy to kinetic energy. When you hit the ground your potential energy is reduced to zero and your kinetic energy is imparted to the earth (like billiard balls) and then you become a body at rest.

A second consideration in physics that everyone should understand is units your units must agree in order for your result to have meaning. For example velocity multiplied by time equals distance. Sixty miles per hour times ten seconds equals 600 miles seconds per hour which is meaningless. Sixty miles per hour times ten hours equals 600 miles, the units of hours in the equation cancels and your result is miles (distance). For all my calculations I have included the corresponding units to insure that they agree and balance correctly.

For all my time, distance and speed values I utilized this picture from a kids science website after all no one would lie to children would they? It gives very precise values along a time line from which when you add in the mass you can calculate many different physical values. You can see it here.
I got the mass of the lander from the wickipedia which at over 8000 lbs or 4 tons it is pretty much the size of a city bus. All the values I have used are pretty much public domain with the exception of one which I will discuss later on. Now lets calculate how much actual energy that the heat shield needs to absorb in order to slow down the lander for the first part of the landing.

Fred said...

Total energy = kinetic energy + potential energy

KE = 1/2 (mv^2) m= 8130 lbm v= 13,200 mph x (1hour / 3600 sec) x (5280 ft/ 1 mile) = 19,360 ft/s

Initial KE = 1/2 (8130 x 19,360^2) = ((lb sec^2)/ft) (ft^2/sec^2)=1,523,601,024,000 ft-lb

PE = mgh m= 8130 lbm g=12.17 ft/s^2 h= (78 mi + (4,217/2 mi)) x (5280 ft/ 1 mile)= 11,544,720 ft

Initial PE = 8130 x 12.17 x 11,544,720 = ((lb sec^2)/ft) (ft/s^2) (ft) = 1,142,258,840,712 ft-lb

Initial total energy = 1,523,601,024,000 ft-lb + 1,142,258,840,712 ft-lb = 2,665,859,864,712 ft-lb

Energy remaining at parachute deploy

KE = 1/2 (mv^2) m= 8130 lbm v= 900 mph x (1hour / 3600 sec) x (5280 ft/ 1 mile) = 1,320 ft/s

KE = 1/2 (8130 x 1,320^2) = 7,082,856,000 ft-lb

PE = mgh m= 8130 lbm g=12.17 ft/s^2 h= 7 mi + (4,217/2 mi) x (5280 ft/ 1 mile)= 11,169,840 ft

PE = 8130 x 12.17 x 11,169,840 = 1,105,167,426,264 ft-lb

Total remaining energy = 7,082,856,000 ft-lb + 1,105,167,426,264 ft-lb = 1,112,250,282,264 ft-lb

Initial energy - Remaining energy = Energy used

Energy used = 2,665,859,864,712 ft-lb - 1,112,250,282,264 ft-lb = 1,553,609,582,448 ft-lb

1 Btu = 778 ft-lb

Total Btu = 1,553,609,582,448 ft-lb / 778 =1,996,493,131

Total Btu = 2 Billion

When I first did this calculation and saw that the energy was over 1.5 trillion ft-lbs of energy I was sure I hit a wrong button on my calculator so i retraced my steps and came up with the exact same number. Lets put this in a perspective everyone can understand and find the weight and length of a freight train that would have the same kinetic energy, traveling at 60 mph (88 ft/s).

Rearranging the equation KE = 1/2 (mv^2) to solve for mass we have m = 2KE / v^2 inserting the values m= 2 (1,553,609,582,448)/ (88)^2 ((lb sec^2)/ft)= (ft-lb)/ ((ft/s)^2)
m = 401,242,144 lbs which equals 200,621 tons, an average coal car full weighs 110 tons 200,621 tons total / 110 tons/car = 1824 train cars the length of a coal car is 53 feet coupler face to coupler face 53 ft x 1824 = 96663 ft 96663(ft)/5280 (ft/mi) = 18.3 miles

Now this hypothetical coal train's kinetic energy represents the total amount of energy (KE + PE) that the heat shield of the lander dissipated for the first phase of the mars lander. I made this simple graph showing the energy dissipation vs time, the values were so huge that I had trouble representing it properly and please note at the end of the parachute deploy the value is not zero as it shows. There is still a substantial amount of energy remaining, but without using a log scale it ends up on the X axis. The picture is located here

We still have a lot more values that we can determine given the data that has been offered to us, let's continue.

Fred said...

The heat shield. This one item has caused me a great deal of anxiety. To begin with it should not be termed the heat shield but rather it should be called the ablative braking system, because what else is there to slow down the vehicle? As I have shown in my prior calculations there is an enormous amount of energy that must be dissipated in order for the vehicle to slow down during descent. All the publications pertaining to the shield that I researched have all stressed that the heat shield protects the vehicle from the heat generated by high-speed entry into a planet's atmosphere. There is no mention whatsoever anywhere that I looked, that it primarily serves as a braking device. Curious? The heat shield is made of PICA (Phenolic Impregnated Carbon Ablator) lets see how wickipedia describes it. "Ablation is removal of material from the surface of an object by vaporization , chipping, or other erosive processes." "In spacecraft design, ablation is used to both cool and protect mechanical parts and/or payloads that would otherwise be damaged by extremely high temperatures.

There is one physical property of the shield that I have not been able to locate anywhere namely the specific heat (Cp) of PICA (Phenolic Impregnated Carbon Ablator) here is what the wicki says about specific heat. "Heat capacity, or thermal capacity, is the measurable physical quantity that specifies the amount of heat required to change the temperature of an object or body by a given amount. Here are some of the papers that I skimmed through looking for the elusive Cp of PICA along with their url's. I will comment more later on why I find this distressing.

This actually has a table with Cp in it but then it lists the error factor as a % for the value 20070014634_2007014732.pdf Stackpoole-Poster.pdf
This is where I found the density of PICA but no Cp.

WHITE PAPER TO THE NRC DECADAL PRIMITIVE BODIES SUB- PANEL Thermal Protection System Technologies for Enabling Future Sample Return Missions 2009? EthirajVenkatapathy.pdf

Thermal Protection System Technology and Facility Needs for Demanding Future Planetary Missions Oct 2003 laub_tps.pdf
Still no Cp

Another guy having trouble locating a data sheet posted in 2011 and still no answer.

Northerntruthseeker said...

Excellent facts..and I did check some of your figures.. Your estimates are valid...

Now for some nitty gritty... Mars' atmospheric pressure at surface varies from season to season, and is estimated to be between 0.004 to 0.006 BAR..... Atmosphere freezes out in winter, especially in Northern Hemisphere...

I have talked with many who sky dive, and they said to me that deployment is not possible until you are at about 15,000 feet above the surface... Which of course is at point BAR on Earth is around 0.35... Or just over 5lbs per square inch... This is required for drag....

I could go into details about drag coefficients... but not necessary... No where on Mars surface is atmospheric pressure sufficient for standard parachutes like the ones that they say "deployed" for the Viking Landers... AND ...The concept of supersonic parachutes was only thought up AFTER the Viking probes!

Which means.. that even with the craft slowed through the almost vacuum Martian atmosphere to allow "parachute deployment",it would be falling like a bullet because parachutes would not work.... No drag possible with no martian air pressure....

Then there is the idea that you brought up, Fred.. Which is the idea of "aerobraking" through the almost vacuum Mars atmosphere, to slow the craft before the parachute deployment... It bothered me for a while before I had my "eureka" moment, and realized that with the varying Martian atmospheric pressure (no constant, and most probably more vacuum than atmosphere at high altitudes) there would be not enough atmosphere to allow the "aerobraking" to even take place... NASA's calculations would be thrown out the door because of the inability to have the proper coefficient for atmosphere....

So many things wrong... and yet we have the general public believing NASA's fairy tales....

Lets see what others have to say as well...

Northerntruthseeker said...

I also leave it open for anyone to show me the specifications for the so called "skycrane" that miraculously landed "Curiosity" on "Mars".... Much like the LM from the fraud Apollo landings, we find no technical specifications for this machine that should be heralded as one of the greatest technological achievements ever.. considering that it worked for the first and ONLY time on a world some 100+ million miles away (Mars position from Earth on day of landing) and with absolutely no problems!!!

Come on, NASA believers.. Give me some technical data.. and dont give me the BS "computer simulations" that NASA tries to sell as the real thing...

Northerntruthseeker said...

Again, someone recently came to me and said..."you are wrong.. because NASA landed Pathfinder, Opportunity and Spirit probes on Mars!"...

I told them that these smaller probes were possible because instead of using fraud parachutes.. NASA came up with the ingenious concept of encasing them in large air bags and basically "throwing" the bags against the Martian surface... After the bags bounced over and over again, they eventually came to a stop, and the air was released, thus exposing the inner probes that (hopefully) were not damaged....

Therefore Pathfinder, Spirit, and Opportunity could indeed be on Mars... The only problem is of course the pictures, which have had to be doctored to show a Martian "sky".....

One thing though about NASA, and again once a liar, always a liar... When Pathfinder landed on "Mars" the team on Earth claimed it was in contact with Pathfinder for some 24 hours after landing.. which is impossible... And I will explain why...

Mars turns on its axis and has a day some 24.6 hours long.. Earth turns also on its axis and has a day almost 24 hours long... But as the planets rotate, radio and television communication gets blocked by the planets themselves.. We cure that problem on Earth by having radio telescopes placed around the Earth to keep in contact.. As well as satellites for continuous communication.. Not so for Mars...

There was only one spacecraft in orbit with a radio transmitter at the time of Pathfinder, and that was Pathfinder's orbiter...Sooooo... As Mars turned on its own axis, communication would be lost for at least 12-14 hours due to Mars itself getting in the way of telecasts back to Earth....

Therefore.. The Pathfinder team was lying its ass off, because communication for 24 hours straight was impossible... Not enough satellites and no ground stations on Mars itself!

NASA continues to lie, and the lies are so ridiculous..

Fred said...

Let's start and do some more calculations but before we begin let's pretend that our space bus is on the side of a mountain and is equipped with conventional disk brakes. In order to keep our bus from speeding out of control as we proceed down the mountain we ride the brakes and constantly generate heat in order to reduce/control our speed. However as we proceed we find that at some point our brakes no longer work. The reason is our disks have become so hot that they are no longer able to absorb any more heat. The brake pads merely slip on the surface of the brake disks and there is no friction present to generate heat with. The solution to this is to either cool the brake disks or to start out with disks that are large enough to absorb all the required heat during our trip down the mountain. At this point I hope everyone can identify the different types of energy that our trip down the mountain represents. The top of the mountain represents potential energy, as we progressed down the mountain our potential energy is changed to kinetic energy and as we apply the brakes our kinetic energy is changed to heat. Here's the formula for total heat.

Total heat Q = (mass) (specific heat) (Temperature final- Temperature initial) or
Q=M Cp (T2-T1) = Btu = lbm ( btu / lbm F) (F2 - F1)

Somewhere I found the maximum temperature the heat shield attains but I did not bookmark the source and I merely wrote it on a piece of paper along with a lot of other data that I was gathering at the time the value I found was 3790ºF at which point it "ablates". Now whatever definition you use for ablate... wears, vaporizes, melts basically it means it disappears and is gone. Since the heat shield is designed to ablate I must assume that the mass is consumed at that temperature. Because where else does the heat go? So we should be able to calculate the mass of the heat shield needed to absorb the heat. BUT WE DON'T KNOW THE SPECIFIC HEAT OF PICA. So this is where the "swag" enters the picture. The Cp of water is the highest of all common substances at 1. Hydrogen has a Cp of 3.42 but neither of them would be a viable substance to build a heat shield with, but we have to start somewhere. If we take our equation for total heat and rearrange it and solve for mass it becomes.

M=Q/Cp (T2-T1)

Since we are flying through space we need to use an absolute temperature scale IE one that starts at absolute 0 or the Rankin scale. This scale seamlessly replaces Fahrenheit without the need for a conversion factor. Also I will assume an initial temperature 10ºR. To convert to ºR we add 460º to our 3790ºF and subtract 10ºR for our T2-T1 this gives a value of 4240ºR we insert the values into the equation and we have.

M = 2,000,000,000/ (1*4240) btu/( (btu/ lbm-ºR ) ºR)

M=471,698 lbm or 236 tons

Fred said...

Now lets go backwards and assume a mass for the shield and calculate what the specific heat would need to be. The diameter of the shield is 15 ft if I assume the thickness is 2 inches and earlier I pointed to a website that gave me the density of PICA for a value of 0.00975 lb/in^3 doing all the arithmetic you will calculate the weight to be 496.2 lbs or 500 lbs. Now lets calculate the specific heat based on this "SWAG".

Q = M Cp (T2- T1) lbm ( btu / lbm-oF) (oF-oF) solving for Cp the equation becomes
Cp = Q/ M (T2-T1) Using our former values and the new value of M we have
Cp = 2,000,000,000 / (500 * 4240)
Cp = 943.39 or 3,949,785.252 J/ Kg*K ( 1 btu / lbm-oF = 4186.8 J/ Kg*K)

Since this relationship on all the calculations is strictly linear (no X^2 terms) if you reduce the thickness by half, the specific heat doubles and vice versa. This material should not be called PICA (Phenolic Impregnated Carbon Ablator) it should be termed Amazium or Thermalinfinitium or some other term which expounds the virtues of its property to absorb an inordinate amount of energy without a corresponding rise in temperature relative to other lesser common substances. I know this is not exact but it gives us much better insight as to how the material would have to perform in order to meet the basic requirements that NASA has claimed to achieve. I cant begin to explain how suspect I am that such a high tech material that has been developed in relationship to the space program specifically for applications of "heat control" does not have this basic physical property available everywhere. One paper I looked at showed a stress strain diagram which is typically used for materials of a structural capacity but I have yet to find the properties listed that are heat related other than the temperature to ablate.

Fred said...

Your earlier comment about my coming up with the aero-braking idea I cant take credit for. It is plainly shown on the kids science picture and labeled as "peak heating" "peak deceleration" and "hypersonic aero-mauvering" which you can also find here if you have not looked at the picture yet .
That one picture is the most valuable piece of data that I found in my search . I have more to come and when I finish I will have observations and insights I will share with you.

Fred said...

So far we have only looked at energy and temperature we have not explored acceleration, force, or power. If we have time and a velocity change of a given mass we can calculate the required force to decelerate or accelerate it. The rate at which we accelerate or decelerate mass will give us force. Acceleration is the rate of change of velocity over a time period and can be expressed as.

a = (v2- v1) / (t2 - t1)  = (ft/s - ft/s) / (s - s) = ft/s^2

Referencing the kids science space picture (or my energy calculations to get ft/s) we can insert the following values.

a = (1,320 - 19,360) / (254 - 0)
a= -71.01 ft/s^2

This is the average deceleration rate and must be constant during this entire time frame to arrive at the final velocity. I am only going to look at averages because an average over a time period will still give us total force and power. For the sake of clarity I am going to drop the negative sign from acceleration, the same force is required to either accelerate or decelerate a given mass from one velocity to another over the same time duration. In order to maintain this constant deceleration the space bus must have an accompanying constant force acting upon it. This relationship is force equals mass times acceleration.

F (lbf) = MA ((lb sec^2)/ft) (ft/s^2)
F = 8130 x 71.01
F = 577,311 pounds force

This is a constant force which must be applied in order to slow the mass down. In order to obtain the total force which is known as impulse we have this relationship. The quantity of impulse is force × time interval.

J = F (t2 - t1)
J = 577,311 x 254
J = 146,636,994 pounds force total

This force only addresses the kinetic energy aspect we have to repeat the same exercise in order to find the potential energy force on the the space bus. The potential energy will be a true constant force on the mass. The acceleration due to gravity on Mars is 12.17 ft/s^2

F= 8130 x 12.17
F= 98,942
J= 98,942 x 254
J= 25,131,293 pounds force total

The sum of these 2 forces is equal to 171,768,287 lbf. This is the total force needed to slow the space bus down from 13,200 mph to 900 mph

Since we have energy over a time period we can determine power. You need to understand that power and energy are two different concepts. Power is the rate at which you use energy. One horsepower equals 550 foot pounds per second

1,553,609,582,448 ft-lb / 254 s = 6,116,573,159 ft-lb/s
6,116,573,159 ft-lb/s/ 550 = 11,121,042 horsepower

Now if we go back and look at our 19 mile long coal train it would be a fair guess that this value would be in the ball park to get it rolling along at 60 mph.

Northerntruthseeker said...

Fred.. I do appreciate the figures and the information, but we must get to the relationship to the Mars missions before too many people lose interest!!!!

I do appreciate the information, being a man of science, and yes, I was the one that brought up the aerobraking issue....

The facts presented show that NASA is at best estimating the aerobraking calculations, due to the fact that Mars' atmosphere is so thin, and that much of it freezes out in the martian winter... Therefore the calculations for aerobraking phase of the landing is at best estimates, and most probably nothing but a hunch...

Then we have the supersonic parachute claims... But I have read up on this idea, and it seems that NASA only came up with the idea of supersonic parachutes AFTER the Viking Landings.... Which means that the Viking probes used good ol' standard parachutes, which obviously could NOT WORK, and therefore exposes Viking for the fraud it truly is.....

The concept of supersonic parachutes have never been tested on earth, only in theory... and have never been tried on Mars... It would have been nice to "test" such a radical concept first before they claim it worked for the first and ONLY TIME with Curiosity!

So... We have a Curiosity mission with unknown aerobraking factors, untested supersonic parachutes, unseen sky crane, and hypergolic rockets that worked so well on the known fraud Apollo missions......And people wonder why I do not trust NASA at all???

Fred, lets get down to the nitty gritty..... Put some of the pieces of the puzzle together, and lets apply it to the Mars Missions...

Fred said...

Dear NTS
This was my first statement to you
With your permission I am going to use this comments section of this post to lay out and explain everything that I have come to find out about the mars lander.
I cant use pictures in comments but i gave the url to all the pictures for reference. The slam dunk nitty gritty that I am attempting to lay out is that basic physics and science does not and cannot lie. I have endeavored to explain everything I calculate and how it relates. Not everyone understands physics to the level that I do.That is why I have tried to reinforce what each value that i present means and how you can interpret it . That is why I have repeatedly tried to impress the fact that you cant dissipate kinetic energy without generating heat or smacking something else, and that the total energy of the lander before the parachute even opens is the same as a 18 mile long train what force does it take to stop an 18 mile long train? Fred jumps up and down and waves his hand and shouts I KNOW ! it takes a half of a million pounds force applied to the front of the train continuously for 254 seconds to make it stop which is the same force needed to slow down the space bus to mars before they even use their parachute teacher. I realize this may be tedious but how can I refute this entire charade in a couple paragraphs, without pictures? My next section deals with the atmosphere and drag forces I have to think on it a little more before I start then I can do a summary. Be Well MY Friend PS use the specific heat of carbon (.17) in the equation to find the mass of the heat shield should be well over a 1000 tons 0_o